Sunday, April 16, 2006
Zero approach anxiety, zero vibe:
Tonight was a great success as I opened amost all the sets I saw. As recently as two weeks ago, I'd get scared to approach certain sets if they were filled with hotties. We went to Barleycorn and Lion Head Pub/The Apartment on Lincoln Ave in Chicago. At Barleycorn, there was this set with two hotties, at least 8 or 8.5. On was a strawberry blonde with a nice rack, and the other was a good looking blonde. It took me awhile to make the approach, but I did it eventually. I got busted out quickly, by my friends were impressed that I lasted a few minutes. I know what went wrong. I ran my opener as usual, and I remembered to put in a false time constraint. I told myself I was going to practice putting in a neg, but I couldn't think of one to use when I got in set. I keep looking at the girl's outfits, which probably looked like I was looking at their tits, so it's not suprising that I got blown out quickly. Still, I felt good about making the approach as they were hot.
Prior to that set, I opened a seated three set of HB6.5-7. They had a hard time hearing me, and I had a hard time hearing their responses. I got busted out, but we later creeped them out. I keep looking over there to see if we should approach again, and my friends kept looking. We got busted staring at them several times so they ended up moving to a different table out of our view. That was bad...
The wing is greater than the lead:
At the apartment, I opened two southern HB's that were standing by the pool table. Jason was in the process of ordering drinks when I decided to make my move. When I'm standing around, I don't like just walking up to a set b/c I feel it shows that I've been thinking too long about approaching. I like to either go to the washroom or walk somewhere and pretend to be on the phone. Then, when on the way back to my group, I turn to the set as I'm about to walk by them, and I open. I got past my tent opener and was about to explain the best friend's test when Jason walked up. He had my drink, but at the time I thought he was coming up as I had instructed him. He handed me his drink and started to walk away, which was good. Since he forgot to use the line, I said, "Hey man. Have you seen Lisa?" He said, "No." Then, I said, "Hey, you should meet these girls." If I remember correctly, I accomplishment introed him by saying he's one of the smartest guys I know, but he doesn't use big words to show off. Plus, he's a great dancer and an outgoing guy. I either accomplishment introed him when he walked up, or I did it just prior to him walking up.
Jason started talking to the HB on the left, and I talked to the one on the right. Partially b/c of better vibing skills, and partially b/c of my accomplishment intro, he was getting along well with his girl. He still doesn't know how to read body language sometime, b/c when I debriefed, he didn't realize that the girl had been into him. She was facing him and I kept hearing them laughing about various things. On the other hand, I was doing a poor job with my target. He never fully faced me and occasionally she would look over to try to join the conversation. I knew I was doing something wrong, but every subject I tried to bring up failed to hook her. As I keep asking questions, I knew I was messing up b/c I looked like I was too rapport seeking. Then, I kept thowing in random games. I ran ESP test and failed. Then I tried to Cube her, and she didn't want to do it. I felt like a fuckup b/c Jason was doing well, and I wasn't. On top of that, since I failed to hold the target, she ended up making her friend leave with her. I think Jason should have tried to isolate, but he doesn't really know what he's doing. I wanted to isolate, but I knew it wasn't going to work since I hadn't hooked her. Still, we held the set for about 10 minutes. Jason definately could have #closed, but they were from out of town and leaving on Monday, so an fclose was the only real way to get anywhere.
Mixed 4 set:
At one point, my friends were boing AFC's and wouldn't believe the theory I was spouting. Now that I think back, I should spout so much theory. I can't expect nonASF people to believe the info I'm spouting, even though I know it to be true. It's good that I made this mistake, however, b/c it forced me to open this set. I spotted three girls that were hovering around one guy. We had been talking about how you have to talk to guys. Jason hates talking to guys at the bars. I explained that I don't care to talk to them either, but I do so b/c it's necessary for the game. Then, Jason said that he just doesn't think it's possible to open a set with a guy in it. Of course, I remembered Mystery saying that a 2 girl, 1 guy set is easier to open than an all girl set. Mystery explains that a girl 2 set has been approached several times in the night . The mixed set, however, likely hasn't been b/c most guy think like Jason and won't approach b/c there's a guy there. Chances are, though, that only one of the girls is actually with the guy, so you are free to pick up the girl.
I told Jason I'd show him that you can approach mixed sets. I walked up to the guy and started talking to him. I asked him what bars he'd recommend as he seemed to have it going on. After all, he had three girls with him. We BSed a little bit, and then I asked how he knew these girls. He said he knew them through college. On top of that, I must have opened him well because he offered to introduce the girls. He introduced a cute blonde. Later, he introduced the birthday girl and the third girl. My mistake was that I couldn't think of a way to open the girls right away so they got bored after meeting me. On top of that, the 4 set was really a 6 set with two other AFC's. A few minutes after I was talking to this dude, the two AFC's announced that they wanted to go dance. I don't know if they really did or were threatened by me since I hadn't opened them. I would have chatted with them if I had known they were with the girls earlier.
Still, this was a great learning experience, and I think I'll be opened more mixed sets in the future. I always understood the theory, but I've only approached mixed sets a few times (less than 5) prior to today. Now that I saw how easy it can be, I'll be approaching more mixed sets in the future. I do notice that I can easily vibe with guys, so that's a good in. Now, I just need to learn to vibe as easily with women. When I can do that, I believe I'll have advanced past the rAFC stage.
AFC friends:
My one buddy doesn't really know about the game and is married. He doesn't totally believe in the theory I'm reading and Seamas is right when he says that my buddy probably also is threatened by the fact that I'm able to do what most guys can't do. Well, I want to be able to pull in the bars, but just being able to open a bunch of random sets is amazing to non community people. If my old BAFC self would have seen someone doing what I did today, I would have thought he was a PUA god. Anyway, my buddy was giving me shit b/c I opened some random girl on the streets. He said I was like Trent in Swingers which I take as a complement. He interprets the movie different that us community guys. Community guys want to be like Trent. My buddy thought Trent was created as an exaggeration of the club party guy. He says you're supposed to laugh at how ridiculous Trent is and not want to be like him. I argued a bit, but let it slide. Later, they are telling me not to be a party guy and criticizing my game. Finally, I got sick of it and did what never would have occurred to me prior to learning games stuff (especially alpha/dominant male stuff).
I told them that I believe the theories I'm learning and I don't care if they don't like it. I told them to stop making BS comments b/c those comments would eventually pull me out of state. My frame is so much stronger now that the comments weren't having that effect, but just a few weeks or months ago, it might have made me self-conscious about approaching for the rest of the night. I also said something like, "Look, we're not having an alpha male contest here. Stop making comments. I'm going to run this game as I know how to do." And they shut up, at least until the end of the night. My buddy was really drunk so I don't care that he started again at the end of the night. When I finally dropped him off and he was sober, he said he'd try to actually be a wing next outing.
Tonight was a great success as I opened amost all the sets I saw. As recently as two weeks ago, I'd get scared to approach certain sets if they were filled with hotties. We went to Barleycorn and Lion Head Pub/The Apartment on Lincoln Ave in Chicago. At Barleycorn, there was this set with two hotties, at least 8 or 8.5. On was a strawberry blonde with a nice rack, and the other was a good looking blonde. It took me awhile to make the approach, but I did it eventually. I got busted out quickly, by my friends were impressed that I lasted a few minutes. I know what went wrong. I ran my opener as usual, and I remembered to put in a false time constraint. I told myself I was going to practice putting in a neg, but I couldn't think of one to use when I got in set. I keep looking at the girl's outfits, which probably looked like I was looking at their tits, so it's not suprising that I got blown out quickly. Still, I felt good about making the approach as they were hot.
Prior to that set, I opened a seated three set of HB6.5-7. They had a hard time hearing me, and I had a hard time hearing their responses. I got busted out, but we later creeped them out. I keep looking over there to see if we should approach again, and my friends kept looking. We got busted staring at them several times so they ended up moving to a different table out of our view. That was bad...
The wing is greater than the lead:
At the apartment, I opened two southern HB's that were standing by the pool table. Jason was in the process of ordering drinks when I decided to make my move. When I'm standing around, I don't like just walking up to a set b/c I feel it shows that I've been thinking too long about approaching. I like to either go to the washroom or walk somewhere and pretend to be on the phone. Then, when on the way back to my group, I turn to the set as I'm about to walk by them, and I open. I got past my tent opener and was about to explain the best friend's test when Jason walked up. He had my drink, but at the time I thought he was coming up as I had instructed him. He handed me his drink and started to walk away, which was good. Since he forgot to use the line, I said, "Hey man. Have you seen Lisa?" He said, "No." Then, I said, "Hey, you should meet these girls." If I remember correctly, I accomplishment introed him by saying he's one of the smartest guys I know, but he doesn't use big words to show off. Plus, he's a great dancer and an outgoing guy. I either accomplishment introed him when he walked up, or I did it just prior to him walking up.
Jason started talking to the HB on the left, and I talked to the one on the right. Partially b/c of better vibing skills, and partially b/c of my accomplishment intro, he was getting along well with his girl. He still doesn't know how to read body language sometime, b/c when I debriefed, he didn't realize that the girl had been into him. She was facing him and I kept hearing them laughing about various things. On the other hand, I was doing a poor job with my target. He never fully faced me and occasionally she would look over to try to join the conversation. I knew I was doing something wrong, but every subject I tried to bring up failed to hook her. As I keep asking questions, I knew I was messing up b/c I looked like I was too rapport seeking. Then, I kept thowing in random games. I ran ESP test and failed. Then I tried to Cube her, and she didn't want to do it. I felt like a fuckup b/c Jason was doing well, and I wasn't. On top of that, since I failed to hold the target, she ended up making her friend leave with her. I think Jason should have tried to isolate, but he doesn't really know what he's doing. I wanted to isolate, but I knew it wasn't going to work since I hadn't hooked her. Still, we held the set for about 10 minutes. Jason definately could have #closed, but they were from out of town and leaving on Monday, so an fclose was the only real way to get anywhere.
Mixed 4 set:
At one point, my friends were boing AFC's and wouldn't believe the theory I was spouting. Now that I think back, I should spout so much theory. I can't expect nonASF people to believe the info I'm spouting, even though I know it to be true. It's good that I made this mistake, however, b/c it forced me to open this set. I spotted three girls that were hovering around one guy. We had been talking about how you have to talk to guys. Jason hates talking to guys at the bars. I explained that I don't care to talk to them either, but I do so b/c it's necessary for the game. Then, Jason said that he just doesn't think it's possible to open a set with a guy in it. Of course, I remembered Mystery saying that a 2 girl, 1 guy set is easier to open than an all girl set. Mystery explains that a girl 2 set has been approached several times in the night . The mixed set, however, likely hasn't been b/c most guy think like Jason and won't approach b/c there's a guy there. Chances are, though, that only one of the girls is actually with the guy, so you are free to pick up the girl.
I told Jason I'd show him that you can approach mixed sets. I walked up to the guy and started talking to him. I asked him what bars he'd recommend as he seemed to have it going on. After all, he had three girls with him. We BSed a little bit, and then I asked how he knew these girls. He said he knew them through college. On top of that, I must have opened him well because he offered to introduce the girls. He introduced a cute blonde. Later, he introduced the birthday girl and the third girl. My mistake was that I couldn't think of a way to open the girls right away so they got bored after meeting me. On top of that, the 4 set was really a 6 set with two other AFC's. A few minutes after I was talking to this dude, the two AFC's announced that they wanted to go dance. I don't know if they really did or were threatened by me since I hadn't opened them. I would have chatted with them if I had known they were with the girls earlier.
Still, this was a great learning experience, and I think I'll be opened more mixed sets in the future. I always understood the theory, but I've only approached mixed sets a few times (less than 5) prior to today. Now that I saw how easy it can be, I'll be approaching more mixed sets in the future. I do notice that I can easily vibe with guys, so that's a good in. Now, I just need to learn to vibe as easily with women. When I can do that, I believe I'll have advanced past the rAFC stage.
AFC friends:
My one buddy doesn't really know about the game and is married. He doesn't totally believe in the theory I'm reading and Seamas is right when he says that my buddy probably also is threatened by the fact that I'm able to do what most guys can't do. Well, I want to be able to pull in the bars, but just being able to open a bunch of random sets is amazing to non community people. If my old BAFC self would have seen someone doing what I did today, I would have thought he was a PUA god. Anyway, my buddy was giving me shit b/c I opened some random girl on the streets. He said I was like Trent in Swingers which I take as a complement. He interprets the movie different that us community guys. Community guys want to be like Trent. My buddy thought Trent was created as an exaggeration of the club party guy. He says you're supposed to laugh at how ridiculous Trent is and not want to be like him. I argued a bit, but let it slide. Later, they are telling me not to be a party guy and criticizing my game. Finally, I got sick of it and did what never would have occurred to me prior to learning games stuff (especially alpha/dominant male stuff).
I told them that I believe the theories I'm learning and I don't care if they don't like it. I told them to stop making BS comments b/c those comments would eventually pull me out of state. My frame is so much stronger now that the comments weren't having that effect, but just a few weeks or months ago, it might have made me self-conscious about approaching for the rest of the night. I also said something like, "Look, we're not having an alpha male contest here. Stop making comments. I'm going to run this game as I know how to do." And they shut up, at least until the end of the night. My buddy was really drunk so I don't care that he started again at the end of the night. When I finally dropped him off and he was sober, he said he'd try to actually be a wing next outing.
Comments:
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Well, as again commented last night, the times that Jason and I think you come across like Trent from Swingers are those times when you start using a phoney sounding "larger-than-life" type voice. Listening to it, I just don't think it works well for you.
The opener you used last night with that voice was fine, but on this particular occasion many moons ago your approach on the girls walking by (they were headed northbound on Lincoln as we walked southbound towards Barleycorn/the Apartment; I didn't end up that drunk that night and remember all this pretty well) was just as artificial and phoney sounding as the voice, and I think it was that that had me thinking of Swingers. All you really needed to do was call them beautiful babies and it would have been complete.
At any rate, as Jason and I were saying again last night, just try to avoid using that voice. It sounds too artificial. That may be because we know you and how you normally speak, but I don't think so. You just project too much when you do that, and I think people who don't know you would notice it as well. As you said, you usually don't do that, and I believe you. You just need to work on not doing it at all. It doesn't seem like it could ever help you, and could only hurt you.
2 other comments after reading your blog for the first time. First, not sure who Seamas is but he's wrong about me being threatened by your sarging, dude. I can't really figure out why I would be threatened, but let's skip that for now. If I were threatened by it somehow, I wouldn't offer to go out with you when you want to sarge and I'm free. I wouldn't agree to meet up with girls like those spring breakers from the other night. And I wouldn't encourage you by trying to help you find worthwhile sets and trying to talk you into opening sets you're not initially sure about. I wouldn't ask about your openers and try to offer feedback. It might sound that way when I've been drinking, but I'm not trying to be critical just to be a dick and shoot you down. I want you to be more successful, and I'm trying to offer some input/advice.
Second, labeling me an AFC is a bit harsh. I had to read through the 9 levels to figure out what an AFC was, heh, but I feel like one should actually be, you know, frustrated in order to be labeled an AFC. From our first year in college till now periods of frustration have been pretty rare, and generally by choice in a manner of speaking. I dunno, none of the 9 levels seem to fit me well, imo anyway. Obviously as we've discussed, I've never been any kind of a PUA, as I have always gone for dating acquaintances/classmates/friends... The few rare times I did pick anyone up that I didn't know well were all way back when in college. I've never really wanted to be a player though - I've always been a relationship guy. Which I guess goes down as one-itis in your terminology, but oh well. The fact that I almost always actually got those ones though as opposed to hearing the "let's just be friends" line would seem to not make me an AFC, and I definitely didn't depend on luck for all my success, but whatever. Anyway, like I said, I don't think any of the levels work. I probably would have been an AFC in high school, but it doesn't seem to apply since then. And I've never tried to be a PUA, so none of those levels apply either.
Interesting blog in any event. I'll check back in hopes that you do add your update for last night like you were planning. In the meantime, let me clarify something from last night. I don't think you should abandon The Game. It is a definite improvement for you over your very quiet old self. I just think that taking the same dedication to mastering the game and applying it to feeling comfortable on the dance floor would be worthwhile.
For one thing, Jason is definitely more comfortable there and you go out with him a lot. You two have very different approaches that don't seem to mesh all that well at times from what I have seen, and I think it would be easier for you to get comfortable with dancing over time than to get him comfortable with many aspects of the game. For another, it just opens additional doors, and I don't see how adding to your repertoire could be a bad thing. Like I said, virtually every single time we've gone to The Apartment without my wife, at least 1-2 girls will come up and dance with me. And I always try to ignore them or insert Jason instead because I am a much better guy now than I was back in college, so I obviously can't say for sure whether it would be possible to # close, or any other kind of close, those girls. But I do know that I have never been approached by a random girl while standing around drinking a beer in a bar. And still pretty much every single time I end up dancing, at least one girl will approach. Last night it was the 1 at Barleycorn we already discussed ad nauseum, and the tall girl at the Apartment that Jason and I told you about. Yes, as you said, my being tall is almost certainly a factor. But girls should be approaching me elsewhere if all it takes is being tall. And that doesn't happen. So some aspect of being comfortable dancing, and managing to hit enough of a semblance of rhythym that I don't look like a complete tool, must factor into the equation.
I really think that getting comfortable on the dancefloor and then being able to combine that with your discussion techniques at the appropriate time would be a good combination for you. I know you don't like getting out there and dancing, but you also didn't feel comfortable approaching random girls once upon a time, and now you open an impressive number of sets whenever we go out. If you were able to become confident with that, you should be able to with dancing over time as well. Something to consider, I guess.
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The opener you used last night with that voice was fine, but on this particular occasion many moons ago your approach on the girls walking by (they were headed northbound on Lincoln as we walked southbound towards Barleycorn/the Apartment; I didn't end up that drunk that night and remember all this pretty well) was just as artificial and phoney sounding as the voice, and I think it was that that had me thinking of Swingers. All you really needed to do was call them beautiful babies and it would have been complete.
At any rate, as Jason and I were saying again last night, just try to avoid using that voice. It sounds too artificial. That may be because we know you and how you normally speak, but I don't think so. You just project too much when you do that, and I think people who don't know you would notice it as well. As you said, you usually don't do that, and I believe you. You just need to work on not doing it at all. It doesn't seem like it could ever help you, and could only hurt you.
2 other comments after reading your blog for the first time. First, not sure who Seamas is but he's wrong about me being threatened by your sarging, dude. I can't really figure out why I would be threatened, but let's skip that for now. If I were threatened by it somehow, I wouldn't offer to go out with you when you want to sarge and I'm free. I wouldn't agree to meet up with girls like those spring breakers from the other night. And I wouldn't encourage you by trying to help you find worthwhile sets and trying to talk you into opening sets you're not initially sure about. I wouldn't ask about your openers and try to offer feedback. It might sound that way when I've been drinking, but I'm not trying to be critical just to be a dick and shoot you down. I want you to be more successful, and I'm trying to offer some input/advice.
Second, labeling me an AFC is a bit harsh. I had to read through the 9 levels to figure out what an AFC was, heh, but I feel like one should actually be, you know, frustrated in order to be labeled an AFC. From our first year in college till now periods of frustration have been pretty rare, and generally by choice in a manner of speaking. I dunno, none of the 9 levels seem to fit me well, imo anyway. Obviously as we've discussed, I've never been any kind of a PUA, as I have always gone for dating acquaintances/classmates/friends... The few rare times I did pick anyone up that I didn't know well were all way back when in college. I've never really wanted to be a player though - I've always been a relationship guy. Which I guess goes down as one-itis in your terminology, but oh well. The fact that I almost always actually got those ones though as opposed to hearing the "let's just be friends" line would seem to not make me an AFC, and I definitely didn't depend on luck for all my success, but whatever. Anyway, like I said, I don't think any of the levels work. I probably would have been an AFC in high school, but it doesn't seem to apply since then. And I've never tried to be a PUA, so none of those levels apply either.
Interesting blog in any event. I'll check back in hopes that you do add your update for last night like you were planning. In the meantime, let me clarify something from last night. I don't think you should abandon The Game. It is a definite improvement for you over your very quiet old self. I just think that taking the same dedication to mastering the game and applying it to feeling comfortable on the dance floor would be worthwhile.
For one thing, Jason is definitely more comfortable there and you go out with him a lot. You two have very different approaches that don't seem to mesh all that well at times from what I have seen, and I think it would be easier for you to get comfortable with dancing over time than to get him comfortable with many aspects of the game. For another, it just opens additional doors, and I don't see how adding to your repertoire could be a bad thing. Like I said, virtually every single time we've gone to The Apartment without my wife, at least 1-2 girls will come up and dance with me. And I always try to ignore them or insert Jason instead because I am a much better guy now than I was back in college, so I obviously can't say for sure whether it would be possible to # close, or any other kind of close, those girls. But I do know that I have never been approached by a random girl while standing around drinking a beer in a bar. And still pretty much every single time I end up dancing, at least one girl will approach. Last night it was the 1 at Barleycorn we already discussed ad nauseum, and the tall girl at the Apartment that Jason and I told you about. Yes, as you said, my being tall is almost certainly a factor. But girls should be approaching me elsewhere if all it takes is being tall. And that doesn't happen. So some aspect of being comfortable dancing, and managing to hit enough of a semblance of rhythym that I don't look like a complete tool, must factor into the equation.
I really think that getting comfortable on the dancefloor and then being able to combine that with your discussion techniques at the appropriate time would be a good combination for you. I know you don't like getting out there and dancing, but you also didn't feel comfortable approaching random girls once upon a time, and now you open an impressive number of sets whenever we go out. If you were able to become confident with that, you should be able to with dancing over time as well. Something to consider, I guess.
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